ChristiansAndGoingOut

Christians and Going Out

This page is set up in the hope that people will be able to express how they see things, and to hear other people's perspectives, rather than argue about them, and for us to understand how things are in specifics before discussing how things should be in general.

Asking people out

Talking to various friends recently, it strikes me how many single Christians are frustrated by barriers to going out, and how little people understand what other people think. For example:

One male friend of mine said a woman in his church had told him that the women were frustrated - their biological clocks were ticking, but all the men seemed 'monastic' so they ended up going out with non-Christian men instead. She said the Christian men had a duty (responsibility?) to the Christian women to ask them out. She also said it was easier to agree to a date with a non-Christian man than a Christian, because it was less significant and serious if a non-Christian asked for a date.

But in another church, there are women who have been asked out by men in the church but who have said no and gone out with non-Christians instead. Some people say there aren't any Christian men around who are 'normal' and who you'd want to go out with, but I don't see that myself.

Then again, a male friend of mine emailed someone he'd met in church, and asked if she'd like to meet up sometime for a chat, and she just ignored it. And when he saw her again, she just laughed at him and said 'Don't be so silly'. Another male friend of mine asked someone if she'd like to meet sometime, and she agreed but stood him up twice. (Apparently more polite and less confrontational than saying 'no'.) So that doesn't exactly encourage men to make the first move.

What about the women? One female friend of mine said most women these days feel able to ask men out. But she also described another female friend of ours as 'monastic', so it's not just the men! Another female friend of mine said women (not specifically Christians) were brought up to feel ashamed of themselves and their bodies, and to feel that being pro-active in initiating a relationship was dirty and disreputable. And Elisabeth Elliot's 'Passion and Purity' (or 'Purity and Purity' as a friend of mine called it) perpetuates the idea that Christian men find being asked out 'a shock' and 'a turnoff', and unfortunately I know that some women have read this and believed it. (They sent an open email via one of the men in the CU saying 'we want to be wooed'. No, seriously.) Do you know any men with this attitude?

So we're left with plenty of single people in church who want to go out with each other, but are afraid to make a move to ask each other out because they think (with some justification) that they'll be rejected badly and that everyone else is monastic and not interested in relationships anyway (or already attached). (Of course there are some couples who have no problems getting together - I'm not denying that. And I'm not denying that non-Christians have problems too - but Christians seem to have more problems rather than less.)

Any further thoughts?

It's all so difficult, isn't it? I think churches need to discuss this more. I spent years thinking I was entirely undesirable, and that I'd be laughed at or rejected if I asked someone out. How can we sort this out?

More barn dances??

BTW My friend alluded to above wants to tell his pastor that he should preach about such relationship issues...

Barn dances would have alienated me all the more. But yes, teaching on this issue would be wise - if I could trust the preacher to be sensitive and understanding of the issues (which in most cases I doubt I could).

I've just noticed someone's put a card on the church noticeboard advertising a Christian dating agency. That adds to the irony that people in the same church aren't able to meet each other. I wonder what would actually change anything though - encouragement from other individual Christians (that means us)? getting everyone to sign up to GuiltyExpression?

People just need to get over themselves, realise that they are in charge of their lives and fuck what anyone else thinks. If you like a guy/girl waht have you got to loose by asking them out? Pride? Pheh! Lost pride is like cramp: It hurts like hell but it goes away. Dx

Glad to hear you're "sensitive and understanding of the issues". You can be my pastor any day.

Midge, it's not that i am trying to be insensitive, it's just that I get sick of people always complaining about things they have the power to change. I woiulsn't make a good pastor for this very reason and without trying to dissmiss your comment all that springs to mind is 'Bullshit you can be mine': an adaptation of the old favourite TopGun quote. Dx

Dx, I think the problem is most difficult when people *don't* feel as though they have the power to change things. This issue is a really hard one for people who feel unsure of themselves, have low self-esteem, and can't see any suitable partners anyway.

And anyway, some of the times people don't ask each other out is not because of pride - for example, if you were really good friends with someone and then you started fancying them but weren't sure whether they fancied you, asking them out might put an end to the whole friendship, if it turned out that they didn't reciprocate your sentiments. As for me, I wouldn't have a problem with going out with non-Christians anyway. Alice

Pride was just an example. I understand the friendship problem but I think that is more of an isolated case compared to the original point. I guess it just frustrates me that people are always so hung up on what others think and are too afraid to go after what (or who) they want. Dx

It can be frustrating, Dx, but if it really is the case that people are afraid and hung up, the question is: how can we help people to overcome fear and shed hang-ups? That's psychologically very difficult for a lot of people.

Alice, I can totally understand why Christians go out with non-Christians. My personal take on this has been that I've always longed to have a partner who *really* understands me and wants to work equally with me on the things we jointly believe are really important. So I'm only attracted to Christian women (just kidding!) - no, seriously, I've been really keen to share my life with someone at the deepest, spiritual level. This DEFINITELY doesn't mean I'm critical of Christians who are going out with non-Christians - but it does mean I hope they become Christians soon, so that the partnership can function at the deepest level; and it does mean that I've felt it wise for me to concentrate on Christian women :) Warmest wishes to you all, DavidB

"I get sick of people always complaining about things they have the power to change." Oh Darkly, if only my friends all had your self-control and self-assurance. I think you'd be a good pastor after all - you needn't speak, they could just admire and follow your example.

Sarcasm aside, most people I might have wanted to go out with have been on good terms with me, or even people I have to work with on a regular basis. Even if I don't care what others think about me, the askee might find it harder to cope with knowing how I feel about her, and I think I should be "hung up on" what she thinks and how she feels. Like Alice says, it's easy to spoil a good friendship that way.

Blimey - I was just writing this and a friend of mine phoned for an hour's chat about this issue.

Midge, I'm not by any means trying to make out that I am a) perfect or b) have all the answers. Obviously one needs to take into account the feelings of the person they are approaching and most of the time people who would be immediate effected by it, a husband maybe ;)

I guess I wasn't clear enough when I made my comments. Most of the time there are not huge reasons for not talking to the other person, merely a worry of what other outside the situation will think. Mt point of not caring was to say that people should follow their hearts and not the little whispers around them. Dx

OK. It was the "People just need to get over themselves" that set me off on the wrong track. Anyway, what does "Bullshit you can be mine" mean? Does 'you' refer to the bullshit or to me? Or is it a chat-up line? Sorry to be so obtuse.

Midge, Watch TopGun. The near end scene after the big battle where IceMan tells Maverick he 'can be (his) wingman anytime' to which Maverick replys 'Bullshit! You can be mine'. It was mean as a term of endearment (SP?) not one to cause animosity (SP?). See you at the wedding. What are you drinking? I'll get you a pint. ;)

"I'll get you a pint." - since it's in Scotland, it'll have to be whisky. Thanks!
"You can be mine" - oh, my pastor. I get it.
Talking of which, our pastor gave a sermon about tongues and prophecy yesterday, and (on the theme of this page) he said he met a girl at another church once who told him that three men had come to her that week and told her "God's told me I should marry you." (She got engaged to a fourth man the following week.)

Whisky is fine as long as you don't expect me to have one with you - can't stand the stuff myself. ;) Dx

Carrying on from what DavidB was saying about helping people, one thing that came up in our Bible study this week is how Christians need to encourage each other more. And in my own life, when I've felt I'm worthless and dysfunctional, it's because of what other (equally unsorted) people have kept saying to me, and when I've felt valued and confident, it's because of sustained encouragement and kind words from other people till I was able to really believe what they were saying, above what other people had said to me. If we get our self-image from how it's "reflected back to us" by the people around, we're at their mercy as to how they treat us.

It seems to me that hardly anyone is totally sorted with no self-image problems - but some people are able to hide it better than others, and some people are able to overcome their fears and self-doubt, especially if they know that God appreciates them and that other people value them too. In an ideal world, Christians should be able to draw strength from both of these.

If we want to see people freed from their hang-ups etc, we've got a responsibility to be encouraging and supportive to them till they're strong enough to believe that their negative self-image isn't right, and that they are valued and (yes) loved.

(There are some good Christian books about being freed from negative self-image and finding your true identity in how Jesus sees you. The only title I can remember is "Healing for Damaged Emotions" which is supposed to be very good, tho I haven't read it.)

I really look forward to meeting you at the wedding. Given what you ahve just said, I though I sould let you know. You have been great on this site/wiki. I mean that. Dx

Thanks - I appreciate that.

While I was browsing my local Christian bookshop for ''Healing for Damaged Emotions (and trying not to get distracted by a book about how to have a great honeymoon) I came across a book called Frustrated and Single or something, which apparently was for single people who don't want to be single. The only bit I remember is a chapter near the end which said 'Only God knows how many great romances you could've had in your life if only you had more courage'. Next time I'm there I'll have another look and see whether it tells you how to get more courage and self-confidence. Correction: It was actually called No Sex Please We're Single. The intro says it's unusual for a book about being single in that it's not written by someone who's already married or by someone who wants to stay single. Looks like a good book on the issue of this page. I couldn't find the bit about courage, but it said it was 'a load of tosh' to say "Oh no, I couldn't possibly ask a man out - good Christian women aren't supposed to do that etc." I also got distracted by a 'gritty, realistic' book called Dead Men Walking'' about being a man and a Christian, that was on display for Father's Day, which included a chapter about what Christian women want in their men. So there's a lot of it about.

But anyway... there must be some more perspectives out there for us to hear, aren't there?

ok - the helping people bit about their faith and self image etc. is excellent. Trying to take this one stage further for me is asking what values people have and from that asking what they will find most fun doing. This is very much simplified but I hope you get the gist. Then go ahead and do it. If you find your not having fun well you probably didn't know yourself so well and need to start again.

Could you expand? I'm not sure how self image ties in with what you say about values and having fun?

Concentrate on this and not the husband wife thing. This means that at least your not wasting this precious time we have on wishing we were with someone, instead using the time we have to do something amazing and have fun in the process.

It takes effort but doesn't anything that is worthwhile?

But if your dreams are having a family then I would suggest start a pro-active plan to meet as many new people as possible and choose things you enjoy doing.~